Tools Indicate India Has Possibly Existed 1.5 Million Years, or More

I just found this article Original Article saying that tools found in India may show a history going back as far a 1.5 million years, or possibly more, who knows. Of course they're stone tools which doesn't lead to the thought of a technologically advanced civilization equal or greater than ours, or that alluded to in the Mahabharata. As I've said before, I believe in such a civilization, one that far surpasses the current world. One that has eliminated evil, where man, if indeed there were men and not some other kind of creature, got along with man. Of course, it does play into the theory that there was once a truly superior being on this world, that has continuously degenerated over millennia the result being modern people who continue to degenerate. It could be that the stone tools found that go back over a million years, could be the remains of the results of that technologically advanced civilization, eons after it destroyed itself and was rebuilding, only eons later to destroy itself again and again who's even to say India was where it is today, then. . Man in one form or another has been on the earth millions of years, millions, plenty of time for hundreds of advanced civilizations also of one kind or another. After all this world, as we know it, could only be considered advanced, at best, for less than 100 years, really for 50 or so. Personally I consider ours as one of the less advanced, if you take away electronics, i.e. printed circuits, computers, etc. we're really no more advanced, perhaps less so than in the 15th-19th centuries, at best the early 20th.  Ignorance is running rampant, growing stronger every day. Anyway I'm starting to ramble, so read on.

 Lee Murray

Stone tools reveal India’s 1.5 million year old prehistory

Past Horizons

Excavation of an Acheulian handaxe.

Article created on Wednesday, March 30, 2011

Archaeologists have discovered India’s oldest stone-age tools, up to 1.5 million years old, at a prehistoric site near Chennai. The discovery may change existing ideas about the earliest arrival of human ancestors from Africa into India.

A team of Indian and French archaeologists have used two dating methods including Cosmogenic nuclide burial dating to show that the stone hand-axes and cleavers from Attirampakkam are at least 1.07 million years old, and could date as far back as 1.5 million years.

 

The excavations at Attirampakkam show a deeply stratified sequence of occupation.

 

 

 

12 years of painstaking work

The Tamil Nadu site was first discovered in 1863 by British geologist Robert Bruce Foote, and has been excavated at various times since then.
Archaeologists Shanti Pappu and Kumar Akhilesh from the Sharma Centre for Heritage Education have spent the last 12 years continuing to excavate the site and have now found 3,528 artefacts that bear a distinct similarity to  prehistoric tools discovered in western Asia and Africa.
The tools fall into a class of artefacts called Acheulian that scientists believe were first created by Homo erectus – ancestors of modern humans – in Africa about 1.6 million years ago.
“This means that soon after early humans invented the Acheulian tools, they crossed formidable geographical barriers to get to southern Asia,” said Michael Petraglia, an archaeologist at the University of Oxford, who is an expert in Asian prehistoric archaeology but was not associated with the Chennai study.  “The suggestion that this occurred 1.5 million years ago is simply staggering,” he said.
The suggestion that this occurred 1.5 million years ago is simply staggering Petraglia himself had earlier been involved in excavating the Hunsgi valley in Karnataka, which has yielded 1.27 million-year-old stone tools, regarded as India’s oldest until now. Although earlier excavations had revealed Acheulian tools at a few sites on the Indian subcontinent, including a two million-year-old site in Pakistan, the dates assigned to the artefacts so far have remained under debate.

The latest dating techniques

Pappu and her colleagues assigned dates to the Attirampakkam tools by analysing traces of certain elements embedded in them and by correlating the archaeological layers excavated at the site with changes in the Earth’s magnetic field.

We adopted two different dating methods and arrived at consistent results

“We adopted two different dating methods and arrived at consistent results,” Shanti Pappu explained “We believe this is the strongest evidence so far for an Acheulian industry in India older than one million years.”
The dating studies were carried out by collaborating geophysicists in French academic institutions. Researchers believe the new dates will have major implications for current ideas about who carried the Acheulian culture into India.

Acheulian handaxe embedded vertically in clays.

In the past, some researchers had attributed the flow of Acheulian tools into southern Asia and Europe to the Homo heidelbergensis, another ancestor of modern humans but one that appeared long after the Homo erectus. But the 1.5 million year date assigned to the Attirampakkam tools suggests that groups of Homo erectus carried the tool-making culture into India.
In an independent research study, Petraglia and his colleagues have analysed Acheulian tools in India that appear to be only 120,000 years old. The two findings suggest that the Acheulian toolmakers inhabited India for 1.4 million years – from 1.5 million years ago to 120,000 years ago.
“The excavators have done an outstanding job, unprecedented in archaeology studies in India. This means soon after early humans invented the Acheulean tool kit 1.6 million years ago, groups migrated out of Africa crossing formidable barriers to get to southern Asia,” confirmed Michael Petragalia.
What sets apart the Indo-French discovery from other similar previous findings is the dating accuracy.
The tools in Attirampakkam suggest that the Homo erectus carried the Acheulian culture into India before the Homo heidelbergensis ferried this tool-making culture into Europe, where the earliest sites are about 600,000 years old, said Robin Dennel, a senior archaeologist at the University of Sheffield, in a special scientific commentary in the March 2011 issue of Science.

All images are courtesy and copyright of the Sharma Centre for Heritage Education, India

 

 

 

 

Strange Relics from the Depths of the Earth - Parts 1-3 and Bibliography

Found this article at Puresight.org  I've posted this information before, bur feel it can't be said too often, and so I'm posting it again.  Here is a link to Puresight.org  Link to Article


Author: J.R. Jochmans, Litt.D., 1979


Editor's Notes:



The article, Strange Relics From the Depths of the Earth, is a 12 part listing of documented discoveries that negate Darwin's 'Theory of Evolution'. It is not nearly as extensive as the book, Forbidden Archeology, which is reviewed elsewhere in our category.
'Strange Relics' consists of 12 parts and a bibliography. We will publish this information in 4 stages so as not to overwhelm our readers. The first stage consists of parts 1,2,3 and the bibliography, which is usually located at the end. We're placing the bibliography at the beginning to allow you immediate access to the reference sources.
As Falun Dafa cultivators * we know that this information barely begins to touch upon mankind's actual history. In the book, Zhuang Falun, by Master Li Hongzhi, we read of a civilization from 2 billion years ago that had a nuclear reactor in operation for 500,000 years! The information presented here is merely a third party confirmation of some of the information in Zhuan Falun.
The immediate question that comes to mind for most people is: 'So, why is it that mankind is in this repetitive cycle of civilization and destruction?'
The answers, of course, are in Zhuan Falun and we urge you to get a copy for yourself so that you too can understand how our contemporary western science has led us so far from the correct path.
* Falun Dafa cultivator: Fa means law or principle, lun means wheel, da means great. So, the literal translation of Falun Dafa is Law Wheel of the Great Law. This is the symbol adopted by Master Li Hongzhi. A cultivator is a person who has committed to cultivating his/her mind nature (xinxing, sheen shing) in order to become the best person possible. Zhuan Falun tells us how to accomplish this.

(1) Accepted theories and unaccepted facts

In most of the academic and scientific world today, the interpretation of the history of the earth, of life, of man, and of human culture, is defined within the narrow boundaries of specific, prevailing theories. The geology of the earth, for example, is viewed almost exclusively in terms of uniformitarianism. This means that the present-existing processes of erosion and volcanism are thought to have been the only forces at work in the past. Because of the slowness of these processes of change, and the tremendous transformations observed in the earth's depths, the age of the earth is thus counted in billions of years - today, it is put between 4 1/2 and 5 billion years.
Likewise, the history of life on this planet is seen as a lengthy development by evolution, or, the progression from simple to increasingly more complex forms. Since the simplest - and supposedly earliest - life forms appear in Cambrian rock, and Cambrian rock is dated geologically at 600 million years, this is deemed the age of life on earth. Only in the final stage of evolution did man appear on the scene, the ultimate end-product: According to the most recent anthropological finds, the earliest man-like creatures roamed the earth just 4 million years ago. Finally, the very nature of evolutionary theory dictates that man's cultural development must have been linear - a slow, gradual, but constant, upward climb from primitive beginnings, spanning the last 10,000 years, with the advent of modern technological civilization and its products the recent culmination of that climb.
These theories, which together form the uniformitarian-evolution-linear model, have predominated modern science for the past century, to the extent that all finds made - every rock sample, every fossil, every human remains and every artifact - have been carefully interpreted and categorized so as to fit this model's framework, at the exclusion of all other. But it is becoming increasingly apparent that not all facts from the past find their 'proper' place. Other discoveries have been made that contradict the accepted model. Yet these discoveries are largely ignored, since it is far easier for the majority of scientists and historians to uphold what is 'established,' than to try to build a new model based on the 'exceptions.'
One of the greatest pitfalls of the uniformitarian-evolution-linear model is that it must accept the premise that man, as an intelligent being, was a very recent arrival in the history of the earth. With the geologic record counted in billions of years, the fossil record in hundreds of millions of years, the record of human fossils in the millions of years, and human civilization only in the thousands of years, there would be no way to explain the presence of human bones, or sophisticated artifacts derived from the hand of man, in deep rock strata. In fact, the finding of even a single such item would be totally devastating to the model, for it would negate the entire concept of uniformity, and the evolution of man and human culture in the past.
The point that will be brought out in this book is that there is evidence for man, and the products of human civilization, in the deep recesses of the earth. Herein are presented the case histories.

(2) The bones of forgotten men

Walk into any natural museum today, or read any textbook on anthropology, and one invariably finds a large chart exhibited, tracing the ancestry of man back through more primitive forebears, until the line is lost somewhere amid the apes. Recently, paleoanthropologist Richard Leakey, excavating in Ethiopia, announced the discovery of what are supposed to be the oldest accepted fossil remains of man - about 4 million years old. What has been disturbing about the new finds is that they are, in part, too human: Their great age, yet partly 'modern' appearance, has forced evolutionists to push back the departure of man from the ape stock farther into the past, so that now it is beginning to infringe upon the time period necessary for the development of the apes themselves.
But while the African finds are revolutionary, there have been other discoveries of human fossils greatly more important, but these have been deliberately neglected or denounced, because they are far older than man is 'supposed' to be.
Over a hundred years ago, in the 1850's, gold miners began digging tunnels into the sides and top of Table Mountain, northwest of Needles, California. Gold was discovered, but along with it were bones of extinct mastodons, mammoths, bison, tapirs, horses, rhinos, hippos and camels - all dating from the Pliocene. In 1863, a physician from nearby Sonora, Dr. R. Snell, began to collect specimens from the excavations. In that year, with his bare hands, he loosened from among the fossils a stone disc that appeared to have been used for grinding. But Dr. Snell was not the first, or last, to unearth mysterious objects from the mountain gravel: In 1853, Oliver W. Stevens made affidavit that he removed a large stone bowl from the lowest level tunnel; in 1857, the Honorable Paul Hubbs, of Vallejo, dug up part of a human crania from inside the Valentine shaft; and in 1862, Mr. Llewellyn Pierce also signed affidavit that he had found a stone mortar 200 feet in from the mouth of the same shaft. The most dramatic find, however, was reserved for a Mr. Mattison, one of the owners of the mines. In February of 1866, Mattison unearthed from beneath a layer of basalt an object which - because of the encrustation's - he first thought was the petrified root of a tree, but on closer examination discovered was a complete human skull. The miner sent the skull to the office of the State Survey in June of the same year. Eventually, the skull came into the possession of Dr. L. Wyman, of Harvard College, who removed the encasing material around the cranium. Dr. Wyman, and an associate named Professor Whitney, identified the skull as very modern in type, but also noted that, 'the fragments of bones and gravel and shells were so wedged into the cavities of the skull that there could be no mistake as to the character of the situation in which it is found.' The stickler was, however, that this meant the skull, along with all the artifacts found, were 12 million years old.
In 1958, Dr. Johannes Huerzeler, of the Museum of Natural History in Basel, Switzerland, unearthed a human jawbone at a depth of 600 feet, in a coal mine in Tuscany, Italy. The bone had belonged to a child, between the ages of five and seven. Though flattened like a sheet of iron, the jaw was declared by several experts to be not only human, but modern-looking at that. But what mystified them was that it had been encased in a Miocene stratum - geologically dated at 20 million years. Dr. Huerzeler declared it to be the world's oldest man' - but his fellow anthropologists did not dare give it the same distinction. Here were human remains more modern in appearance than all the 'ape-men' forms ever found - yet they were five times as old as any of them. In fact, the jaw bone is as old, if not older, than many ancestors of the apes. The bone raised more problems than answers - so the find was quickly 'shelved,' and no further work was ever done to give it due recognition.
Early in November of 1926, archaeologist J.C.F. Siegfriedt made a discovery in another mine, this one the Number Three shaft of the Mutual Coal Mine of Bear Creek, 55 miles southwest of Billings, Montana. What Siegfriedt found was a human tooth, in which the enamel had been replaced by carbon and the roots by iron, by seepage petrification. In an account published in the Carbon County News and dated November 11, 1926, Siegfriedt reported that he had meticulously preserved the mineral matrix that had been deposited around the tooth, and several dentists identified the mold created as being a human second lower molar. The tooth, however, came from the lower level of the mine - from an Eocene deposit dated at 30 million years old. Siegfriedt could generate no interest in his find among other specialists, and as far as is known, no one has done any further study of the mystery.
One of the more controversial of the 'out-of-place' bones from extreme antiquity is today part of the collection of the Freiberg Mining Academy in West Germany. It is a poorly preserved human skull, found in brown coal in 1842, from an undisclosed locality. Early European authorities dismissed the skull as a fake, but more recent research and analysis has questioned this hasty pronouncement, putting it back into the realm of the authentic. The reason for its initial denunciation is understandable: The coal it was embedded in, a portion of which still clings to the skull, is estimated to be as much as 50 million years old.
It seems that even when authentication is overwhelming, the response by the scientific community is, inversely, underwhelming. In 1973, a rock collector named Lin Ottinger was searching over a rock plateau that had just been bulldozed over, in preparation for the beginning of mining operations by the nearby Big Indian Copper Mine. The mine is situated 35 miles southwest of Moab, Utah. During his pickings in the exposed rock, Ottinger suddenly found pieces of bone and teeth, and traced these to a patch of sand with a brown stain - the tell-tale sign of decayed organic matter. Carefully removing the sand, Ottinger discovered the top portion of a large intact bone. The rockhound, realizing the importance of his find, decided to have a credited expert look at it, and let him do the digging, so that everything would be 'scientifically acceptable.'
A week later, Ottinger returned to the plateau with Dr. J.P. Marwitt, professor of anthropology at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, several photographers, a news reporter, and a number of observers. With cameras recording the event, Dr. Marwitt carefully removed the lower halves of two human skeletons. The bones were articulated - that is, laid out naturally - showing the bodies had not fallen or been washed into the stratum in which they were situated. These and other factors revealed the bones to be as old as the layer in which they were found. The one problem was, the layer is Lower Dakota and Upper Morrison formations -over 100 million years of age, according to uniformitarian geologists. Yet, as Marwitt noted, the bones were not simian or even half-ape: They were fully human and modern-looking.

(3) The bones of forgotten men

The skeletons were taken by Marwitt back with him to the University of Utah, to run laboratory datings on them. But whether the tests were ever run, there was no official confirmation. One gets the impression they were, and that the findings were too disturbing for conservative thinking. Marwitt suddenly became 'disinterested' in the project, and left Utah to take up a teaching position elsewhere. After a year waiting for results, Ottinger recovered the bones - and that ended the scientific inquiry.
More finds, made in the last century, were similarly reported, and promptly forgotten. The Saturday Herald of Iowa City carried an article that on April 10, 1867, human remains and artifacts were brought to light at the Rocky Point Mine, in Gilman, Colorado. At a depth of 400 feet below the surface, excavators found human bones embedded in a silver vein. Along with the bones was found a well-tempered copper arrowhead. As best as can be calculated, the vein in which the items were situated was 135 million years old, by present geological standards. ((SR. #2))
At times, the discoveries made revealed 'mysteries upon mysteries.' In July, 1877, four prospectors were looking for gold and silver outcroppings in a desolate, hilly area near the head of Spring Valley, not far from Eureka, Nevada. Scanning the rocks, one of the men spotted something peculiar projecting from a high ledge. Climbing up to get a better look, the prospector was surprised to find a human legbone and knee cap sticking out of solid rock. He called to his companions, and together they dislodged the oddity with picks. Realizing they had a most unusual find, the men brought it into Eureka, where it was placed on display.
The stone in which the bones were embedded was a hard, dark red quartzite, and the bones themselves were almost black with carbonization - indicative of great age. When the surrounding stone was carefully chipped away, the specimen was found to be composed of a leg bone broken off four inches above the knee, the knee cap and joint, the lower leg bones, and the complete bones of the foot. Several medical doctors examined the remains, and were convinced that anatomically they had indeed once belonged to a human being, and a very modern-looking one. But an intriguing aspect of the bones was their size: from knee to heel they measured 39 inches. Their owner in life had thus stood over 12 feet tall. Compounding the mystery further was the fact that the rock in which the bones were found was dated geologically to he era of the dinosaurs, the Jurassic - over 185 million years old. The local papers ran several stories on the marvelous find, and two museums sent investigators to see if any more of the skeleton could be located. Unfortunately, nothing else but the leg and foot existed in the rock.
The next and last skeletal find takes us another quantum leap in geologic time, and plunges us even deeper into the earth's strata. A Scientific American article published in 1880 reprinted the particulars of a discovery made in the spring of that year, reported in the St. Louis Republican. Dr. R.W. Booth, who operated an iron mine about 3 miles from Dry Branch, in Franklin County, Missouri, unearthed from a depth of 18 feet a human skull, portions of ribs, vertebrae and a collar bone. With them were two barbed arrowheads of flint, and pieces of charcoal. Dr. Booth realized the significance of all this, but was frustrated when at just a touch the skull crumbled to dust, and the other bones likewise broke into pieces. But these pieces nevertheless told their story: Later analysis showed they were definitely human. Two and a half weeks later, Dr. Booth reached a level of 24 feet, and found more of the same skeleton - a thigh bone, vertebrae, and more charred wood. What is more, the remains were found resting on a layer of iron ore, which bore the impressions of coarse matting. One could still see the marks of criss-crossing fibers. What astounded Booth was that the layer in which both portions were dug up was the second or saccharoidal sandstone of the Lower Silurian - dated an incredible 425 million years old.
Let me repeat that: 425 million years. We have gone far beyond the purported age of human culture, of man himself, the apes, all mammals, even the age of the dinosaurs. According to evolutionary theory, the Silurian age saw the advent of life on land and was in fact more than two-thirds of the way back to the supposed advent of life itself. But what are the remains of man and his products doing at this level? Something, certainly, is very wrong.

SELECTED BIBLIOGRAPHY
Allen, E.A. 'Footmarks in Kentucky' American Antiquarian (1885) vol. 7.
American Antiquarian (1885) vol. 7, 364-365.
Bergier, Jacques Extraterrestrial Visitations From Prehistoric Times to the Present New York: New American Library, 1974.
Berlitz, Charles Mysteries From Forgotten Worlds New York: Dell Publishing, 1972.
Bible Science Newsletter July, 1970, p. 2.
Binder,Otto O. Unsolved Mysteries of the Past New York: Tower Publications, 1970.
Braidwood, Robert J. Prehistoric Man New York: William Morrow and Co., 1967.
Brandon, Jim Weird America: A Guide to Places of Mystery in the United States New York: E.P. Dutton, 1978.
Browne, J.B. 'Singular Impression in Marble' American Journal of Science vol. 1, no. 19, p. 361, 1831.
Chapman, Glen W. 'Archaeological Findings of Pre-Flood Cultures in America' Bible Science Newsletter August-September, 1969.
Chardin, Pierre Teilhard de The Appearance of Man New York: Harper and Row, 1965.
Charroux, Robert Forgotten Worlds New York: Walker and Co., 1973.
Charroux, Robert One Hundred Thousand Years of Man's Unknown History New York: Berkeley Publishing, 1971.
Corliss, William R. Ancient Man: A Handbook of Puzzling Artifacts Glen Arm, Md.: The Sourcebook Project, 1978.
Corliss, William R. Strange Artifacts, 2 vols. Glen Arm, Md.: The Sourcebook Project, 1976.
Donelly, Ignatius Ragnarok: The Age of Fire and Gravel, rev. ed. New York: Steiner Books, 1976.
Edwards, Frank Strange World Secauscus, N.J.: Lyle Sturat, 1974.
Fange, Erich A. Von 'Time Upside Down' Creation Research Quarterly June, 1974.
Flint, Earl 'Nicaragua Footprints' American Antiquarian (1889) vol. 11, 306-311.
Fort, Charles The Book of the Damned New York: Ace, 1941.
Itao, Jude Studies of the Stratigraphy and Dating of Geologic Anomalies in North America and Europe Unpublished, 1975.
Keel, John A. Our Haunted Planet New York: Fawcett Publications, 1971.
Kolosimo, Peter Not of This World New York: Bantam Books, 1973.
Landsburg, Alan and Sally In Search of Ancient Mysteries New York: Bantam Books, 1974.
Le Conte, Joseph 'Carson Footprints' Nature May 31, 1883, 101-102.
Marsh, O.E. 'On the Supposed Human Foot Prints Recently Found in Nevada' American Journal of Science (1883) vol. 3, no. 26, 139-140.
Mooney, Richard E. Colony Earth Greenwich, Conn.: Fawcett Publications, 1974.
Nelson, Byron C. The Deluge Story in Stone Minneapolis: Augsburg Press, 1962.
Noorbergen, Rene (researched for by J.B. Jochmans) Secrets of the Lost Races New York: Bobbs: Merrill, 1977.
Norman, Eric Gods, Demons and UFO's New York: Lancer Books, 1970.
Pauwels, Louis The Eternal Man New York: Avon Books, 1972.
Pauwels, Louis Impossible Possibilities New York: Stein and Day, 1971.
Pierce, Josiah American Antiquities and Discoveries in the West: 1835.
Rehwinkel, A.M. The Flood St. Louis: Concordia Publishing, 1957.
Sanderson, Ivan T. Investigating the Unexplained Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentise-Hall, 1972.
Silverberg, Robert Man Before Adam Philadelphia: Macrae Smith Co., 1964.
Steiger, Brad Mysteries of Time and Space Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentise-Hall, 1974.
Tomas, Andrew On the Stones of Endless Worlds New York: G.P. Putman's Sons, 1976.
Tomas, Andrew We Are Not the First New York: Bantam Books, 1973.

Ancient Indian Spacecraft And Aircraft Technology

Found this article at Rense.com. Presenting without comment as it says it very well.   Rense.com

Ancient Indian Spacecraft And Aircraft Technology
By The Hindu Staff Reporter
1-6-5
TIRUPATI --'India had a treasure trove of hitech warfare technology that even the 'mighty West' does not possess. The Brahmastra and Vimana used in the pre-Mahabharata period are nothing but the earlier versions of today's nuclear weapons and spacecraft.'
It is this feeling that one would get after listening to a lecture on 'High Technology in Ancient Sanskrit Literature' by Mr. C. S. R. Prabhu, senior scientist, NIC, Hyderabad, on Thursday as part of the three- day Indo-Nepal Sanskrit Conference, currently underway at the Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha here.
Mr. Prabhu, quoting extensively from ancient texts, stressed that the pre-Mahabharata period was an age of high technology, which was ignored in the Medieval period due to reasons not known.
He quoted from the texts of a great scholar, Subbaraya Sastry, who, in a state of yogic trance, is said to have orally dictated the spacecraft technology in a period somewhere between 1875 and 1919, which was recorded by his disciples. The text, a copy of which is still in Nepal's Royal Library, contained technical details on assembling, fabricating and erecting a spacecraft, the metals, semi-conductors, advanced alloys used and other minute aeronautical information. Though quite difficult to be believed on the face of it, the fact that this technology did not exist anywhere in the world - not even in America and Europe - in the mentioned period, makes it hard for one to disbelieve.

Artwork by James Neff

The technical information given in Sastry's texts was as minute, precise and clear, as if it were a 'Make your own spacecraft' or a 'Spacecraft technology in 30 days' except for the Sanskrit language used, which was very much archaic and obsolete, Mr. Prabhu said. On a tip on making an alloy, the text said 'Krishnaseesam Chanjanikam Vajrathundam samamsathaha' from which the real meaning of 'Vajrathundam' (used in that context), could not be found in any contemporary Sanskrit dictionary. ''After a great amount of interaction with ayurvedic specialists and Swamijis with intuitive interpretations, it turned out to be the cactus plant,'' he said.
To further strengthen his claim, he said there were wall paintings in some forts in Rajasthan depicting the use of rockets in Mughal warfare and even by Tipu Sultan of Mysore. Another interesting fact he gave was that the spacecraft could become invisible on its own. The lead alloy (Thamogarbha loha) used in making the body of the spacecraft would absorb light around it in a photo chemical reaction that would make it disappear.
On testing the Krishna seesa metal mentioned in the formula in the laboratory of Birla Institute of Science, Hyderabad, Mr. Prabhu found the metal absorbing 78 per cent of laser light, which means, any other light could be easily absorbed, giving ample proof that there existed a technology to make things invisible. Also the use of an alloy of copper, zinc and lead made the spacecraft's body resist corrosion by 1000 times over that of the current levels. Using Ararakamra material for the axle and wheels had made it possible for taking 'U' turns and serpentine movements.
An astonishing fact is that the Ararakamra metal was an alloy of copper, zinc, lead and iron, the combination of which is impossible, according to modern metallurgy. Technically, the ''Young's modulus'' of this metal is said to be higher than that of steel, making it stronger. As the spacecraft had to be capable of resisting high temperature, on re- entering our atmosphere from the outer space, its body was made with a metal called 'Raja Loha'. Its special feature was that apart from resisting heat, it converted light from lightnings into energy. To crosscheck all these details, there were no furnaces available in Hyderabad to melt metals at a high temperature of 2500 degrees celcius, Mr. Prabhu lamented.
Another hitch came into his research in the form of the 'energy' used. 'Though the texts explained that the spacecraft was propelled by 'Sourasakthi', modern solar technology does not generate so much power to drag a rocket', he pointed out. Later he found out to his bewilderment that it was a kind of 'nuclear power' that was used in those days. 'The solar power, when coupled with gamma rays produced nuclear energy that had the power to propel a rocket', Mr. Prabhu observed.
He even spoke on 'Tripura Vimana' that was used to travel in space, water and on land, by using the metal 'Trinetra loha'. Mr. Prabhu said he had submitted the model and some more information on the 'super metal' to the Indian Metal Society Conference and further claimed that the advisor to the government on scientific affairs Dr. A. P. J. Abdul Kalam too had asked him to bring the design of the plane.
A committee which was appointed by Indian Institute of Science to investigate into it, declared Sastry's texts as 'fraud', but Mr. Prabhu reasons that the descriptions mentioned in the ancient texts were perhaps too advanced to believe, making the committee to hastily come to the conclusion. He wanted a national level effort to prove that the so called 'myths' were in fact, scientific formulae on advanced technology. He said he had proposed a project called 'Bharadwaja Institute of Vedic Science and Technology', the objective of which was to derive, decipher and reproduce advanced methodologies and processes from Vedic and post-Vedic Sanskrit texts, for which he sought government's support.
More Reading On This Subject -
http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_7.htm
http://ebusiness.ada.gov.in/library/library/VymanikaShastra1.htm

They Say It's Impossible... They Don't Understand Why, or How, But They Just Know It's Impossible

Many of the things that I believe, or consider, and have talked about here, or in conversation, are considered whacko and idiotic. They are to be honest, outside the interest, experience, or knowledge of the average person. Most of us rely on our own knowledge and experience, or the knowledge of experts, or both, to determine if something is possible.
Generally the average person has little to no knowlege or experience  beyond getting along on a day to day basis. As a rule most people never look below the surface, they never, or rarely ask why, or what if.  Many don't read, or expand on the knowledge they aquired in school,  assuming that they were given all, or more than the teaching they'd need for the rest of their lives. In my own family I've been told that I'm an odd duck, to say it nicly, because I have so many books, that I read. Two or three of my own family have told me they haven't read since school.
Many or even most people assume that an expert in any field knows everything about that subject, and that if they say a thing happened, didn't happen, or couldn't have happened, it must be right, after all they're the experts, right? It never occurs to them that the expert may not know everything, that the expert might have preconceptions or beliefs that color his or her objectivity, or that they have bought into the ideas that they were taught, and their teachers were taught, and their...well you get the idea, they just know it's, whatever it is, impossible, because it's been taught, or believed to be impossible since forever, or even longer.
For instance, I believe, I know, don't ask me how, but I've always known that there were civilizations greater and more advanced than ours tens of thousands of years in the past. Who they were, what they did, how they did it, I don't have a clue, I just know in my gut they were. There are clues, hints, in ancient writings, and myth, but evidence in the hand, little or none.
People ask if true, why only stone tools and weapons, why no skyscapers, why no ancient cars, or airplanes, why no ancient books or libraries? If there were advanced civilizations, or cultures where are the guns, where are the other advanced weapons, where are the advanced tools, why are the only things found made of stone, copper and bronze? My reaction is it's been tens of thousands of years, I'd be more surprised if there were remains on every corner.

If you watch the History or Discovery Channel show, Life After People, you see that most everything we have, the stuff that defines us as advanced, the electronics, the art, the books, the buildings, the infrastructure roads, bridges, everything, will all disappear in the first couple of thousand years.
From previous or pre-historic civilizations, the great pyramid and the Sphinx, as well as thousands of monuments, temples, pyramids, and buildings are left in Egypt, there are other cities and monuments left scattered around the world, all generally made of stone. As a rule they have several things in common, no matter where they're located, they're huge, made of stones weighing many tons not a few pounds, they're made using mortarless construction, and usually finished so that a knife blade or in some cases even a sheet of paper can't be slid between them. They have holes and grooves, or other features, as part of their finishing so precise and difficult that they must have been done with tools that didn't exist prior to us, as far as we know.
In addition, some of the ruins are in places like the top of the Andes, where finding the materials, moving them, and supporting the workforce that we imagine would be necessary is virtually impossible, at least given what we know today. It's pretty much agreed that with all our advanced knowledge and tools and equipment we would find it impossible or nearly so, to duplicate these ancient feats of engineering and building. Yet there they are, they exist, you can see them, reach out and touch them. Somebody built them. Who was it?  A people who are barely out of the trees, that were said to be hunter gathers a few generations before? Who either don't write, or have just developed writing in the form of hieroglyphics? Who have no mathematical skills? No, I agree, it's unlikely that these people built the pyramids, or anything like them. So, who did it? A previous civilization that had the engineering, and math skills, the surveying skills, the equipment and machinery needed to put anything from a 4 ton to 100 ton block of stone in place. The workmen capable of building and setting the blocks together using no mortar, yet so well built that thousands of years later a knife blade or even in some cases a sheet of paper can't be slid between them. My grandfather was a mason, and I doubt even he was that good.  So, there was a civilization, one or more, but at least one that was detroyed long ago, people, possibly Neanderthal, possibly not, were nearly wiped out.
Imagine if that happened today, something happens that wipes out a large part of the world population, the large cities, the cars, the electricity. No lights, no heat or a/c, no refrigerators, no telephones, no computers, no internet, no gas so no cars, buses, trucks, trains or airplanes.  Suddenly we're thrust back in the dark ages, no pun intended. Maybe not quite but for most of us it would seem so. People are left but just here and there, gangs roam the streets of what's left of the cities, the various militaries around the world try to restore order by doing what they do best, dictators little and big take over. Madness rules and lots of us, some of those trying to survive, and get back what they lost move into the woods, probably hunting for food, possibly growing some food, or eating wild vegitables or fruit, and eventually living in caves, and trying to teach their children what they know and remember.
In kindergarden we played a game called Telephone, we'd sit in a row and starting at one end whisper something to the kid next to us. Invariably whatever it was was nothing like what was wispered at the start. I think it would be the same today in a situation like I described above and was surely the same back then in pre-history, the survivors taught their kids, who taught their kids, who taught their kids, on and on, and on.
Eventually, maybe sooner, the world they knew is gone, gone forever. All they know  is hunting and gathering, the family, or tribe is everything. Strangers, as they've been taught down through the generations are at best suspect, not to be trusted, at worst enemies out to destroy the family. The only law is survival, at any expense. The knowledge and experience that the original survivors tried to pass on becomes stories, legend and myth. The skill of writing and reading is lost . Understand, they aren't stupid just nobody remembers. 
Also another factor may come into play, mutation, or as some call it evolution. Over  successive generations, hundreds or thousands of them, mutation and evolution takes place, they are no longer the same humans that destroyed the world. How or what caused it is anyones guess, possibly they've lost atributes or abilities their ancestors had, or perhaps they've gained some their ancestors never imagined, or both, who knows, but they're different.  At some point someone discovers a book, or remembers a myth, that you can plant a seed.
Somewhere, somehow, somebody learns. at least that's the accepted theory, what's taught in schools, probably worldwide, is that "modern civilization," started about 5000 years ago in the mideast, Sumer in Mesopotamia, and Egypt, moving on through the centuries. The accepted theory is that tribes of hunter gatherers today, were building cities, planting fields of grain and orchards, living together by the thousands, building the pyramids, temples and monuments, designing weapons and conducting organized wars tomorrow. Does it make sense?  I'm linking a website that does a pretty good job of explaing the accepted theory of where and when civilization started, all I ask is think about it, if it does make sense, great. If not dig deeper and look under the surface, ask why and what if....

History of Civilization


Lee Murray

Found Another Very Interesting Website

It's called Accuracy in Genesis, new perspectives affirming the biblical creation record.  Link to Accuracy in Genesis

So far I've just read bits and pieces and I don't agree with everything. For instance he, they, whoever, paints Noah, in the first article that caught my eye, as early man, barely out of the cave, building a floating box from cypress trees, or even reeds, and pitch, using sharpened stones.  I'm exagerating somewhat, but since I think that antediluvian man was as, or more, advanced and sophisticated as ourselves, I find this difficult to accept. But until we have a real time machine to go back and visit, they could be right, who knows.  I have to say this is a very good site, that makes a very, very good argument for their beliefs. The site gives permission to use their info, so after reading through it I may take advantage and pass it on to my readers. In the mean time click on the link above and check it out for yourselves....

Lee Murray

Antediluvian Civilizations...Yes or No???

Antediluvian pertains to the time between creation and the beginnings of known history, you could also say prehistoric civilizations. Of course the definition of known history varies by the knower. The average person whose exposure to history is limited to high school or college is less knowledgable than a history teacher or professor, who probably knows less than an archeologist, or other specialist. But most, if not all people, average or professional will state absolutely that civilization started in the mideast, probably Babylon, Mesopotamia, or Egypt somewhere around 3500-4000 BC, or about 5-6000 years ago. 

Personally I've always believed that there were many much older civilizations equal to, or greater than, any we know today, including our own, going as far back from us as hundreds of thousands of years, to as near to us as ten or fifteen thousand years. Most people I've told that, asked, after they stopped laughing or calling me an idiot, or both, where is the proof.  My answer today is watch the program, After the People, on the histoy channel. It shows that within a few hundred years pretty much everything we know today is gone or well on its way, and the world is ready for the next experiment.

It only makes sense when you think about it, the concept that one week we're hunter gatherers, the next week we're farmers and atisans, growing wheat and making jugs and jewelry, building chariots and writing laws, living in towns and cities, building fantastic monuments and pyramids, a couple weeks later we're building atom bombs, then flying to the moon is every bit as fantastic.  It's becoming more accepted every day that unknown antidiluvian civilizations existed. Existed before the end of the last ice age. Is existing 15, 20, 50,000 years ago that much more of a stretch?

In fact it's been proposed that the rise of sea levels about 10000 years ago was the flood of Noah and was what destroyed the most recent early civilization.  Perhaps it was Atlantis as has been suggested by several authors?   Bringing to mind a question, in the bible it says it rained 40 days and nights, and springs in the earth opened and water poured out making the water rise above the mountain tops, and as the water level started to drop after forty days, the Ark came to rest on the top of Mt Arrat. The question is simply, did enough ice melt at the end of the last ice age and quickly enough, to cause the water levels to rise above the mountain tops in just a few days? What I've read suggests just a couple hundred feet over months or years, which might be a problem, but survivable by most people I'd think. A long way from Noah's flood as decribed in Genesis.

We, as a civilization, from the estimated beginning to now, have existed only five or six thousand years, maybe a little more or less. First as a mostly rural, mostly uneducated, mostly agrarian society, (building with wood and stone, wind or oar powered wooden ships, horse, mule or oxen drawn wooden vehicles), for thousands and thousands of years,  then as an advanced civilization, (industrial, big steel buildings, steel ships, bicycles and automobiles, the ability to kill each other at ever greater distances), for about 150 years or so, finally as a truely  advanced, (at least in our own opinion), civilization (computer, atom bombs), for just about the last fifty or sixty years.

What I find facinating is that people today, if you take away the advancements, the electronics, the laptops, ipods, etc., are little or no different, barely more educated,  no more, perhaps less, civilized, than people who lived 50, 100, 1000, or 5000 yearrs ago.

If you watch the time machine we have available, ie old movies, and newsreels, in the past most people got out and interacted with each other, knew each other. Then came the radio, then tv, and now even those are becoming out of style and passe' as people stay home alone with their computers, online, leading virtual lives.

Regarding the people of these long ago times compared to us modern, superior people. In my opinion, we, the modern human, are inferior mutations of a superior and stronger humanity that lived so many thousands of centuries ago. Whether the mutation happened in the lab of God, or an Alien, or just slowly over centuries as we "developed," I haven't a clue. 

Is it possible that civilizations existed 50 thosand years ago? Who knows? I've read that before it burned the Library at Alexandria had thousands of scrolls and books, (for lack of a better term), that went back into history thousands of years. Exactly how many thousands I don't know.  But, human beings, in one form or another, may have been around as long as 2-3 million years, or more, depending on who you talk to, we, homo-sapiens about a half million years.That's a lot of time. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of civilizations could have existed in all that time.

Again, in the Bible it tells of the civilization that existed and was destroyed by Noah's flood, the people had become degenerate and were destroyed for that reason. Well Noah, his sons and their wives survived, and it seems likely that they would also have been degenerate also to some degree,  after all they lived among the ones destroyed. If you believe the Bible, we the modern humans would've had to come from Noah through his sons. Are they the only survivors?

The Bible says yes, but, I've always thought that the people that we call cave men, were in fact survivors from some massive world wide destruction. Perhaps it was also the flood, who knows. Mutated, losing intelligence, psychic abilities, strength, size, longer lives, skills and knowledge, again who knows? Perhaps the modern predilection to killing, murder, and war, the greed, and overwhelming need for sex is part of the mutation?

It seems a safe bet, that if Noah could save himself then others could and probably did, there probably were other boats around.  Once the water subsided, it's safe to assume homes, business's, farms, factories, animal (except those in the Ark), crops, vehicles, pretty much everything would be destroyed. Just like a modern flood, on a larger scale. The survivors would try to go on with their lives, but, like us if we lost all electricity, meaning all our modern advancements, they'd be thrown right back to a more primitive state.  In our case it would be the 1800/early 1900's, in theirs who knows?  I imagine as what was left disappeared, each new generation would remember less and less of what had been, until after dozens or hundreds of generations, what had once been common knowlege would be just legend and old mens stories. No longer sophisticated and civilized, they became cave people, hunter gatherers surviving  by doing whatever. Or, perhaps that never happened, instead the survivors realized their technology, whatever it was, was gone, forever,  moved into caves temporarily, got together what was left, and started farming, raising animals, etc. Or perhaps the technology survived but gradually power started to fade and they eventually had to use more primitive methods, until as generations passed that was all they knew.

The possibilites are endless, so here's where I leave off for now. Comments anyone???

Lee Murray